---
ai_generation_date: '2026-09-29'
ai_model: gemini-3-pro-preview
audiodharma:
  talks:
    - date: '2020-08-30'
      mp3_url: https://audiodharma.us-east-1.linodeobjects.com/talks/12030/20200830-Gil_Fronsdal-IMC-social_justice_through_a_buddhist_lens.mp3
      speakers:
        - speaker_name: Gil Fronsdal
          speaker_url: https://www.audiodharma.org/speakers/1
      talk_start_time_seconds: 0
      title: Social Justice Through a Buddhist Lens
      url: https://www.audiodharma.org/talks/12030
      video_unavailable: false
location_city: Redwood City, CA
video_unavailable: false
youtube:
  id: SLPwzQJOFuo
  imprecise_upload_date: '2021-05-04'
  title: 'Gil Fronsdal: Dharma Talk: Social Justice Through a Buddhist Lens'
  upload_date: null
  uploader_str: Insight Meditation Center
  uploader_url: https://www.youtube.com/@InsightMeditationCenter
youtube_url: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLPwzQJOFuo
---

# Social Justice Through a Buddhist Lens - [Gil Fronsdal](https://www.audiodharma.org/speakers/1)

_This is an AI-generated transcript from auto-generated subtitles for the video above. It likely contains inaccuracies, especially with speaker attribution if there are multiple speakers._

## [Social Justice Through a Buddhist Lens](https://www.audiodharma.org/talks/12030)

Good day and greetings. For this Sunday morning talk, I would like to attempt to talk about social justice through a Buddhist lens.

It seems that social justice—economic justice, justice within the legal system—is a huge issue in this country, the United States. How is it that Buddhist teachings might relate to this and address this? How might they support us in the struggle for social justice?

People often ask that question of me. Those who go back to look at the traditional Buddhist teachings sometimes are a little bit troubled to discover how difficult it is to find teachings directly related to what we might call social justice. One of the reasons for that is that the term "social justice" is only about 150 years old in English. Even in English writings before the year 1870 or so, you wouldn't find the term, so you couldn't search for it.[^1]

The same thing goes for Buddhist texts. However, there are a few things to consider. One is that the word _dharma_[^2] could easily mean justice, and that someone who stands on the _dharma_ or is established in the _dharma_ is established in justice. But to just say that doesn't explain much about what it means.

There's a good reason why in the ancient texts we don't find the Buddha talking about social justice, economic issues, and legal issues in a way that directly addresses the problems of our society. It was a very different society back then. The Buddha lived in ancient times; things were very different. The primary source of governance during the Buddha's life were countries ruled by kings. Some of them were despots with absolute authority. You get a sense of that in the wonderfully terrible descriptions given in the texts of the gruesome and creative ways a king might kill someone.

The king's word was final, and if you opposed the king in any way, it was perhaps the end of your life. For the Buddha, or anyone back then, to offer an alternative party to the king's party, or to protest how the king was governing, probably wouldn't have gone over very well.

So instead of talking about these things directly, the Buddha talked about them indirectly. He told stories—stories that I think of as fables. If you unpack these stories and apply them to our situation, they do have some perspectives to give us. You certainly get a feeling or a sense of the Buddhist approach and direction, and how we might address these kinds of issues.

Maybe in his time, he could tell these fables because he had authority as a spiritual teacher, and he wasn't talking about the kings of his day directly. The stories were presented as if they were true events that happened millions of years ago, in a kind of fable time.

The story I'm going to tell you begins at a time when the human lifespan was 84,000 years. With the deterioration of social conditions, people's lifespans decreased over the millennia until they finally came down to just seven days—and then they got better again. So you get a sense of a fable, going from an 84,000-year lifespan to much shorter.

It begins with an account of a king who travels across greater India to conquer and unify it. In becoming what is called a "wheel-turning monarch,"[^3] he acquires a number of treasures. One of the treasures symbolic of his power and governance is a wheel. The wheel probably refers to the chariot wheel. The war chariot was a new and very effective invention at the time, so it was a symbol of power.

What the Buddha and others did was take this symbol of temporal, violent power and transform it into a symbol of _dharma_ power. This story is part of a movement to appropriate this symbol and make it something much more peaceful.

This king acquired a mythic or magical wheel that floated above the capital, indicating he had power. But he knew it wasn't always going to be hanging in the air, so he told his ministers, "Tell me when that wheel disappears." Sure enough, one day the wheel disappeared.

They came to him and said, "It has disappeared." He asked, "What should I do now?"

The ministers said, "Now you are supposed to become a wheel-turning monarch. Meaning, you are supposed to embody the qualities of the _dharma_—a _dharma_-turning monarch."

He asked, "How do I do that?"

They told him, "You live by justice. You govern by justice. You protect people through justice, and you protect everyone—your family, the townspeople, the people in the countryside, the whole realm. It's your job to guard and support them in their lives."

And then, very interestingly—and this is where it starts getting a little bit more poignant for us—they added, "You want to protect them from crime. Let no crime prevail in your kingdom. And to those in need, give property."

This was one of the key pieces of advice he was given: don't let there be any crime. But how do you prevent crime? You support the people in need. You give them property so they can grow food or do what they need to do to make a living. This was seen as one of the primary responsibilities of a king.

In addition, the ministers said, "You should find the religious people, the monks, the ascetics, the renunciants who have become free of craving and clinging. You should frequently go to them for counsel and hear advice from those who are peaceful and compassionate."

Here we see the emphasis is on protecting people and supporting those in need. The king did that, and things went really well for a long time. At some point he died, and his child became the next monarch. This went on for several generations, following the same pattern: when someone became a monarch, the wheel would appear in the sky, then the wheel would disappear, and the person would get the advice to live in a _dharma_ way—protecting people and supporting the needy.

Then there came a king who heard this advice but did not follow it. He did not support the people in need. Lo and behold, the poor people started to starve and live very impoverished lives. One of them, in order to support his family, stole some food. (If your family is starving to death, stealing food is not really considered stealing in some societies, because the higher need is to keep people alive.)

The man was arrested and brought to the king. The king asked, "Is it true that you have stolen food?"
The man said, "Yes."
The king asked, "Why?"
"Because I'm poor, and I'm trying to feed my family."
The king said, "Okay, in that case, I'll offer you some property so you can make a living for yourself and not have to be so poor."
The man said thank you, and that's how it happened.

But then another poor person stole something. The same thing happened, and the king gave that person some property too. The people of the country got a sense: "Look at what happens! If we steal, the king gives us property." So they started stealing and getting arrested.

They would go in front of the king, and after a while, the king realized what was going on. He said, "This can't continue. I can't keep giving property to everyone this way."

So when the next person was arrested for stealing and came in front of him, the king arranged for the person's head to be chopped off. Well, that created very different conditions in the realm. The people who had started stealing because they were poor thought, "Now that the king wants to kill us, we should get weapons and defend ourselves."

But they didn't just use the weapons to defend themselves. They used them to steal more and start killing other people. The society started to unravel.

As it unraveled over a long millennial period, the lifespan of people decreased more and more. Then there started to be all kinds of other difficulties. Once they started killing people, they began lying to the king to avoid being caught. The king would catch people who were stealing and ask, "Are you stealing?" and they would say, "No."

So lying became prevalent. Killing became prevalent. As things deteriorated, sexual misconduct became prevalent. Then divisive speech and harsh speech became prevalent. People became increasingly covetous—wanting, holding, and keeping things for themselves. They became increasingly hostile to each other and started having crazy ideas and opinions about all kinds of things.

Eventually, everyone had weapons, and people started fighting, warring, and killing. The text says that parents fought their children, children fought their parents, and neighbors fought neighbors. Things completely unraveled, and their lifespans decreased to just seven days.

Here we see the unraveling of a society because the ruler, whose job is to care for the poor, does not support them to come out of poverty. In order to survive, people start a life of crime. But when a life of crime starts, it's hard to get back on course. Eventually, there is mass killing. Poor people steal, so they are killed. A harsh legal system makes the whole situation worse.

They say that if you live by the sword, you die by the sword. Live by hostility and hatred, and hatred is what follows and grows. This story conveys how things become worse and worse with violence, animosity, and a lack of care and support in society.

At some point, when things got to their absolute worst, some people escaped deep into an inaccessible forest. For seven days, they stayed in the forest meditating. After seven days, they came out. The text says:

"At the end of the seven days they emerged from their hiding places and rejoiced together of one accord saying, 'Good beings, I see that you are alive!' And then the thought will occur to those beings, 'It is only because we became infatuated with evil ways, harmful ways, that we suffered this loss of our families and relatives. So let us now do good. Let us now do what is ethical.'"

The story talks about how things had gotten so terrible, with so much violence and unethical activity, that the word "ethics" had disappeared during that chaotic time. So these people coming together is a very important part of the story. They went off into the forest, came out, and arrived at a new conclusion: "That way didn't work. Let's now live a _dharma_ life, a just life, an ethical life. Let's live for the good and support of each other."

This idea of coming together in unity and caring for each other was radically different from the divisive and fragmented direction society had gone.

These people started to live an ethical life. As they did so, their lifespans over the generations got longer and longer, until finally they got back to 84,000 years. The story goes on to say that when lifespans reached that length and everything was good, the righteous, just king of that era renounced the throne. He handed his palace over to the monks, nuns, renunciants, beggars, and poor people so they had a place to live. He went off to become a monastic himself, to practice the _dharma_, become awakened, and attain the highest level of knowledge and liberation possible for a human being.

Here we have the Buddhists saying, yes, being a king is one thing, but even better is to really transform oneself. We must liberate the good inside of us and free ourselves from the forces of harm: greed, hate, and delusion.

To become a just king in this story is to make sure to focus on the poor and take care of them. You elevate their situation, provide education, and give them whatever opportunities it takes to pull them out of poverty. We've seen repeatedly in this mythic story that when the poor are not cared for—when there's oppression, subjugation, and closed doors of opportunity—it's all too easy to succumb to anger, hatred, frustration, crime, violence, and addiction. Life begins to unravel, and it doesn't look pretty.

If we add an unjust criminal justice system to that, putting people in long sentences and limiting their lives in dramatic ways, it just makes the situation worse. Families, neighborhoods, and situations keep unraveling.

Someone has to stop this. In the ancient texts, it is the people who band together to start living an ethical life. Eventually, there come back these world-turning monarchs, these rulers who realize their job is to care for the poor and protect everyone else. Care for the poor is a fundamental basis for Buddhist social justice in the ancient texts.

How do we have a country that cares for the poor? I like to believe that when you live in a democracy, each of us is, in a certain kind of way, the monarch. Each of us has a responsibility to step forward to support and make the democracy work. It's not just a matter of waiting for the king to do it for us; it's up to each of us. That's how the story ends: it was the people who came out of the forest who realized they had to become different.

The difference was to be truly committed to an ethical life: to not kill, not steal, not engage in sexual misconduct, not lie, not engage in divisive or harsh speech, and not engage in empty, pointless speech. It meant avoiding covetousness, greed, ill will, and hostility, and having what in Buddhism is called Right View.[^4]

One aspect of Right View is appreciating that everything we do has consequences. Our actions have ethical consequences that ripple out from us and back to us. How we behave is hugely important. From a Buddhist point of view, there's no real transformation of society unless you live an ethical life. If what you want is a just society to live in, then an ethical foundation is essential for each of us.

From that foundation, we must be concerned about poverty in this country. All of us need to do what we can to make a difference: to support people, help them come out of poverty, and allow everyone to have equal opportunities to find their way.

This is one of the teachings we can tap into when looking to Buddhism for support in thinking about social justice. Because it's a fable, it can be adapted and interpreted in many valuable ways.

There was a time in my life when I would have diminished the value of these mythic stories. But it seems that down through the centuries, right up to today, the people and religions that move society the most are often telling stories. We have to be very careful what stories we tell. We need to have stories of social justice available that can hopefully move society in the right direction, providing a reference point, a common vocabulary, and a shared understanding.

Social justice is really one of the great calls of our time. I hope that in giving this little talk, you will give more thought to issues of social justice and the need for all of us to address them.

Thank you so much, and it's wonderful to be here with you.

---

[^1]: Original transcript mentioned "before the year 1780 or so" when explaining the term is "about 150 years old". Corrected to 1870 based on the context of the talk being given in 2020.

[^2]: **Dharma:** A Pali/Sanskrit word with multiple meanings, including the teachings of the Buddha, truth, the path of practice, or natural law. In this context, it also refers to righteousness or justice.

[^3]: **Wheel-turning monarch (Cakkavatti):** An ancient Indian concept of an ideal, righteous ruler who governs ethically and benevolently over the world.

[^4]: **Right View (Sammā-diṭṭhi):** The first factor of the Noble Eightfold Path, involving a deep understanding of reality, including the law of karma (that actions have consequences) and the Four Noble Truths.