--- ai_generation_date: '2026-09-14' ai_model: gemini-3-pro-preview audiodharma: talks: - date: '2021-01-29' mp3_url: https://audiodharma.us-east-1.linodeobjects.com/talks/12828/20210129-Gil_Fronsdal-IMC-mindfulness_of_breathing_21_q_a_on_breath_meditation.mp3 speakers: - speaker_name: Gil Fronsdal speaker_url: https://www.audiodharma.org/speakers/1 talk_start_time_seconds: 0 title: Mindfulness of Breathing (21) Q&A on Breath Meditation url: https://www.audiodharma.org/talks/12828 video_unavailable: false location_city: Redwood City, CA video_unavailable: false youtube: id: auSchWnI_9U imprecise_upload_date: '2021-05-04' title: 'Dharmette: Mindfulness of Breathing (21) Q&A on Breath Meditation' upload_date: null uploader_str: Insight Meditation Center uploader_url: https://www.youtube.com/@InsightMeditationCenter youtube_url: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auSchWnI_9U --- # Mindfulness of Breathing (21) Q&A on Breath Meditation - [Gil Fronsdal](https://www.audiodharma.org/speakers/1) _This is an AI-generated transcript from auto-generated subtitles for the video above. It likely contains inaccuracies, especially with speaker attribution if there are multiple speakers._ ## [Mindfulness of Breathing (21) Q&A on Breath Meditation](https://www.audiodharma.org/talks/12828) ## Introduction I thought that before going further with _anapanasati_[^1], with this practice of mindfulness of breathing, I would start over again in a little different way, and stay more with the most basic aspect of the practice. Over these weeks that I've been doing this, I've offered a variety of subtly different ways of being with the breath and breathing. It isn't that you have to remember all those ways, but rather maybe some of them work for you, inspire you in some way, and can be a basis of how you practice. The wider range that I give, perhaps the more likely you'll find something. Maybe you'll piece together parts of it, the subtle different ways of being with the breathing and working with the breathing and the meditation. I also wanted to just stay real basic today rather than moving further along the steps. As I said yesterday, in some ways as we're going through slowly, in some ways we're going through it very fast. Maybe it would be ideal to spend a year going through the steps. On Monday we'll start a little bit further. The next stages of the steps are quite fascinating and very significant for working with this meditation practice. But before we go on that way, I wanted to take some questions from you. We've been doing this breath meditation now for a few weeks, and maybe it'd be nice if a few of you had a chance to ask some questions. If you can put them in the chat, I'll try to respond. Maybe the questions that I pick out of the chat will hopefully be relevant for many of you. It's interesting for me to get some feedback and learn a little bit about the kind of questions you have, or challenges you have with it, or joys you have with it. There are a lot of chat questions. Sometimes I can't really follow them in order because they pass by so quickly. I try to do a little bit that way, but maybe we can think of it more as I'm pulling questions out of a hat than doing it in sequence. ## Working with Anxiety **Q: Someone said, "I experienced anxiety."** There's no question there, but it's interesting that anxiety comes from a Greek word meaning to choke, or to not really be able to breathe fully in. Working the edge of where the breathing is held or resisted can sometimes be helpful with anxiety, kind of expanding it and relaxing that. ## Dealing with Severe Pain **Q: How can this help with severe chronic pain?** It might not help; I can't promise you that this will help. But there are plenty of people who find that breath meditation can help with severe pain. Certainly, I've had lots of severe pain in meditation—not chronic, but certainly severe at times. One of the surprises is to discover that it's possible to feel joy and pain at the same time. It's possible to become calm and feel pain at the same time. It's kind of like two different sides, two different aspects of our being. Often, if we identify too much with the pain, or are too preoccupied with it or too caught up in it, then that influences the inner state of how we are. But if we don't identify too much with it, or aren't too preoccupied with it, it's there—we don't ignore it—but then our inner emotional state and our mood don't have to be tied to it. The inner state can be peaceful or calm. That doesn't necessarily make the pain go away, but it creates a different context for being with the pain. The pain isn't the primary influence on us, but there's something else inside which might actually influence the pain in some way. I've also found, when I've had severe pain in meditation or in life, I sometimes just breathe through it and around the place of pain. It depends a little bit on what kind of pain it is, but sometimes just breathing through it or with it, I don't identify with it so much. A little sense of relaxation happens, a little sense of something releasing. And if nothing else releases, my preoccupation with it releases. There's much more to be said about pain, but for now, we'll leave it there. ## Experiencing the 16 Steps **Q: Have you experienced all 16 steps?** Sure. And sometimes I've experienced them sequentially one to the other, usually. But sometimes it's more random. I sit down to meditate and I find myself at different points of the steps. Or I'll jump ahead, or it seems like I go through it quickly and one of the steps becomes the predominant one for the day. So, yes. ## When the Body Disappears **Q: What does it mean when the body disappears?** There's no question mark, so that's already disappeared, too. [Laughter] Generally, when the body disappears in meditation, it means we're concentrated. It means the thinking mind has become quiet enough that we're not conceptualizing about the body. It turns out that it's a little hard to imagine if you have never experienced it, but a lot of the ways in which we experience the body is mediated through our thoughts and ideas—through the activity of the mind that constructs the body. For example, with seeing, we have all these little photon light particles travel into the eye. They get turned upside down in the eye and go against the retina, and then these electrical signals from the nerves send signals up into the brain. Then the brain reconstructs the signals into something which is a simile of the world out there that was seen. Sometimes that reconstruction is not accurate, like when you see a twig on the ground and first you see it as a snake. Or I've seen strangers in the distance in a crowd, but for a moment I thought it was a friend of mine because there was enough similarity. I filled in the blank to see my friend, and then I looked more carefully—no, it's not my friend. So the reconstruction process is an activity the mind does. As the mind gets calmer, it's not reconstructing so much. And as it doesn't reconstruct, it doesn't take the signals from the body to reconstruct, and it just feels like the body is disappearing. Sometimes it disappears entirely. I've actually sometimes had to open my eyes in meditation to make sure that I was still here, because it just felt so empty. Sometimes there's an intermediate stage where the mind is still reconstructing sensations, but it's not really doing it accurately anymore. So in meditation, people will feel like they get elongated, like they're about to touch the ceiling, or they feel really squat. Their hands feel like they're getting really big. Usually, it's not particularly unusual; it's just a little perceptual distortion. It's usually a particular stage, and when people go through it, it doesn't last for too long. Then after a while, the capacity to settle and get more concentrated settles in, and that perceptual distortion stops. ## Following the Steps in Order **Q: Is it important to follow the steps in order?** Like I just said, no. Sometimes it's helpful to do so because it can help the concentration. You're on task and you're just going to do it. And sometimes it's not. To do it on task, and do a technique, and follow something makes the mind too busy. Sometimes what happens is we start with the first one, we just start with breath meditation and getting settled in. Then, rather than applying and following the steps exactly, we recognize as we deepen the practice where we are. Because we can recognize it, maybe it becomes a little fuller. We can let it become fuller and more complete, and then on its own it moves into the next step, and into the next step. I prefer that way, rather than intentionally moving ahead when you think it's time to move ahead. It's more like you do your practice and you just allow it to unfold in its own way. Sometimes it jumps around; it doesn't have to be the same linear steps. ## Working with a Controlled Breath **Q: How to work with a controlling breath?** This is really common. I think the most useful thing to do is not worry about it and don't be bothered by it. Allow yourself to have a controlled breath. You can cultivate strong mindfulness and concentration with a controlled breath, just as with a breath that's not controlled. It's not the breath that is the main issue; the main issue is the quality of the attention you bring. Also, if you're not bothered with it, you're more likely to get out of its way. When we're bothered by a controlled breath, we actually in some subtle way reinforce it, and it makes it more difficult to let go. It can be very interesting to become a connoisseur of the controlled breath. Just be content to have a controlled breath, and then get to know it really well. Where exactly is the sense of control? Where is the tightness, the resistance, the pushing? What are the emotions that are connected to it? Are there any beliefs connected to it? Just really get to know it inside and out. Sometimes that really getting to know it is a little trick, because after a while, focusing on it directly in that way disarms the control. Sometimes you discover something interesting that needs to be relaxed and released, and then it becomes easier. So that's one of the things I would do. Another thing that I've done—I've done so much of this over the years that I've done different things at different times. Sometimes, when I had a controlled breath, I imagined that I was bringing my attention from the back forward, like going in through the back door. I'd go to my back ribcage, and just feel it in the back ribcage, where there's very little sense of control. I felt the breath there for a while, and then that kind of relaxed the control in the front. Then I slowly moved my attention forward gingerly, without triggering the control. ## Challenges with the Out-Breath **Q: I have a challenge in the out-breath being smaller and the belly tight. Your suggestion of observing the end of the in-breath and the end of the out-breath is helpful, since I do get anxious there. Any thoughts about that?** I think it's a little bit the same as with control. It's very significant just simply to recognize and observe what we're actually doing. There's a tendency when we see something about ourselves to have judgments or reactions, or think it should be different. But don't underestimate how very significant it is that you're just observing it and seeing it. That might be all you need to do. I've had all kinds of ways in which I've been anxious, or tight in my breathing, or controlling my breathing, where I just allowed myself to feel it, know it, and continued with the breathing. It's kind of like the breathing is just a massage for it. I find it interesting that as a massage, some point in the in-breath is more like the heart of the massage, and then like pushing it, and then relaxing. Sometimes it's the top of the in-breath, sometimes the end of the out-breath; it depends what's going on. Just be with the rhythm, and find a way to be really content, like you're in it for the long term. You're not trying to fix it, you're not overly concerned about it. Just recognize, "Oh, it's unpleasant, it's tight, it's controlled, there's anxiety, and I just breathe with it. We're going to be friends, and just breathe and breathe." That kind of attitude is sometimes a very effective way for things to settle over time without us being involved in all kinds of mental preoccupations, which often just stir it up even more. ## Meeting with the Sangha **Q: Let's do another Zoom soon to chat with the _sangha_[^2].** Yeah, we'll do it. Maybe we can do it next week. It depends a little bit on whether I have time. Right now I have a number of things I'm having to take care of in my life that make it a little harder. ## Trauma and Dissociation **Q: Any ideas for trauma survivors and dissociation? Sometimes I may think I'm concentrated, but maybe I'm dissociated.** Certainly, trauma survivors have their own path. The care that's needed for breath meditation and for meditation in general is a noble, dignified path for people who have had trauma to work through and work with their trauma. But it often needs a little different kind of attention than the basic, usual instructions that I would give. Usually, what's really good is a lot of compassion, a lot of care, a lot of generosity to oneself, and a lot of patience with it all. And permission to not have to go headlong into the trauma or the fear. It's fine to be at the edges of it, and it's fine to avoid it, or it's fine to breathe with it without fixing it or doing anything with it. A very helpful skill to develop, so you can pull out when trauma responses arise in meditation, is to kind of end the meditation, or come out of that state and revive oneself, or come back to normal a little bit. Develop that skill so there's confidence that as you go into it, if you really wanted to, you could come out. So at some point, if you want to explore and go further with the sensations of trauma, you do so with a lot of confidence that at a moment's notice you can pull yourself out. And maybe there is dissociation. It's not a crime to be dissociated. It's okay to do, within reason. If it just happens in meditation, maybe it also has a helpful function. Sometimes there's a break or there is a kind of relaxation that can happen with some dissociation. So not to be in a hurry to make it wrong to do that. But if it starts being a problem, or you suspect that it is a problem, then I find focusing on the body is one way to work through dissociation, because dissociation is more often than not associated with not being connected to the body. Getting professional help is also good. If you really think it's a big issue, it's really good to find professional help. There are now, in some areas, therapists who know about mindfulness, Buddhism, and meditation, and that can be particularly helpful for people meditating. ## Letting Go **Q: After the 16th step—this would be the last one—would you make letting go the next theme?** Yeah, that certainly can be. But we'll see, letting go is built into _anapanasati_[^1]. Next week we'll get to the end of each tetrad[^3], and there is some quality of letting go in the family of letting go. We'll see next week when we get to the eighth step, that has letting go. And the end of the first tetrad is relaxing or tranquilizing the bodily formations, and that's in the family of letting go. At the end of each tetrad, there's a letting go kind of quality. So we'll do some of that here. ## Reflections Well, thank you for your questions, and I'll read the rest of the questions so I get some sense of your concerns. I appreciate this chance to be this way with you, and I look forward to next week and continuing on this process. Thank you very much. --- [^1]: **Anapanasati:** A Pali word meaning "mindfulness of breathing." [^2]: **Sangha:** The Buddhist community of monks, nuns, novices, and lay practitioners. [^3]: **Tetrad:** A group of four. In the Anapanasati Sutta, the 16 steps of breath meditation are divided into four tetrads or sets of four steps.