--- ai_generation_date: '2026-08-24' ai_model: gemini-3-pro-preview audiodharma: talks: - date: '2020-06-11' mp3_url: https://audiodharma.us-east-1.linodeobjects.com/talks/11540/20200611-Gil_Fronsdal-IMC-refuge_4_of_5_trusting_refuge.mp3 speakers: - speaker_name: Gil Fronsdal speaker_url: https://www.audiodharma.org/speakers/1 talk_start_time_seconds: 0 title: Refuge (4 of 5) Trusting Refuge url: https://www.audiodharma.org/talks/11540 video_unavailable: false location_city: Redwood City, CA video_unavailable: false youtube: id: pM5DlFBl99w imprecise_upload_date: '2021-05-04' title: 'Dharmette: Refuge (4 of 5) Trusting Refuge' upload_date: null uploader_str: Insight Meditation Center uploader_url: https://www.youtube.com/@InsightMeditationCenter youtube_url: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM5DlFBl99w --- # Refuge (4 of 5) Trusting Refuge - [Gil Fronsdal](https://www.audiodharma.org/speakers/1) _This is an AI-generated transcript from auto-generated subtitles for the video above. It likely contains inaccuracies, especially with speaker attribution if there are multiple speakers._ ## [Refuge (4 of 5) Trusting Refuge](https://www.audiodharma.org/talks/11540) Greetings. Today is the fourth day of the five-part series on refuge. It's probably the central religious emotion that classically Buddhists engage in. It's also a classic kind of ritual, a movement of commitment and involvement expressing the deep trust and faith that Buddhists have. In fact, sometimes a person is defined as a Buddhist when they've gone for refuge. There's no one who can say who is and who is not a Buddhist, so everyone's welcome to self-identify as they wish. I've known people who have been dedicated Buddhist practitioners and students for decades who really do not call themselves Buddhists, and happily so. And I've known people who, the first time they hear Buddhist teachings, say, "I'm a Buddhist. This is it." So, it's not that important whether you're a Buddhist or not, but there is an emphasis on the importance of refuge. For many, the idea is that refuge is what makes a person a Buddhist in a formal way. However, as I've been saying these days, the Buddha actually didn't really encourage people to go for refuge in the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha. When he emphasized refuge, it was finding a refuge within. One of the passages that I read yesterday, that I would like to read again, the Buddha said, "I will teach you the refuge and the path leading to the refuge." What is refuge? Here is a very clear definition of what the Buddha wanted to define as the refuge. It is a triple refuge, and maybe not coincidentally. The refuge, he says, is the destruction of greed, the destruction of hatred, and the destruction of delusion. This, the Buddha said, is called the refuge. That's powerful language, talking about the destruction of these things. It means they're really uprooted, and the possibility of being finished with them once and for all. This is the great potential that Buddhism champions, emphasizes, and celebrates: that we don't have to accommodate greed, hate, and delusion. We don't just learn to be wise with it, navigate with it, and be mindful of it so we don't give in to it. It's possible to somehow get down to the roots of where it lives dormantly and pull those out. This is the classic metaphor, and here in this language, to destroy it. Even well short of that, to have some qualitative experience of real peace, a real absence of clinging, an absence of greed, hatred, and delusion—to really experience the heart that way without it, and to recognize, "Oh, this is possible." For some people, in the course of ordinary everyday life, it's rare to really feel the full potential for a deep abiding peace, openness, or a sense of deep connectedness, intimacy, and closeness. In Buddhism, this is over and over again defined by an absence: the absence of greed, hate, and delusion. It's difficult for many people in daily life to really have a deep, fully embodied, and fully integrated experience of this. For some people, going on meditation retreats or having a regular meditation practice really opens that possibility. For some, it's going into nature or being at the beach for the day. Sometimes it's certain relationships we're close to, where it feels like something very deep can happen, allowing us to let go. If that letting go is the refuge, what refuge means here is that we trust that place where we don't cling. Short of destroying greed, hate, and delusion[^1], they will come back. Clinging will come back. We will get caught up, contracted, resistant, and angry. We will complain, resist, or cower away. But the study of refuge is about where our faith is, what we trust our lives with. We trust, more than almost anything else, this place of tremendous goodness, this freedom of peace. People might easily question, "Well, it can't be that good. It's dangerous out there in the world, and we have to take care of ourselves. Just trusting, being peaceful, and not clinging is not good enough." But if you can turn this around, to really appreciate and understand—because we know peace—we can see very clearly that getting caught up in hostility, resentments, and regrets is not a good deal. Getting caught up in resentment and hostility is a way of harming ourselves. It is a loss, a diminishment of who we are. It's dangerous to be caught in those things, to be caught in clinging, greed, or lust. We can actually feel how we lose the peace, calm, subtleness, and openness. As we lose this place where there is no greed, hate, and delusion, we clearly feel that what is precious[^2] and valuable is lost. Something profound and wonderful is lost in the process of getting clinging and greedy. It feels that this is not worth it. This is a loss. This is also harming myself. This is a diminishment of myself. I'm no longer whole and integrated; now I'm becoming fragmented around this tightness and preoccupation with something. The same thing happens with delusion. It can be hard, and maybe even hard to imagine, but it's possible to watch delusion arise. Watch[^3] judgment, bias, and prejudice arise, and see how that diminishes ourselves. See how that's a loss. To treat someone or relate to someone through the filter of prejudice is awful for them, and it's also awful for us. It's a loss. To have this visceral experience within of the absence of greed, hate, and delusion, and then say, "This is where I want to live from," is key, because to not live from there is a loss, a harm, and is not really worth it. Maybe living without greed and delusion is not the full story of a satisfied life, but it certainly is a pretty wonderful beginning. If you have other ideas of what's important for your life, whatever is important for you to do that is not directly tied to the absence of greed, hate, and delusion, don't pick up greed, hatred, and delusion to accomplish those other things. The baseline is to find a place of living where we really have faith, trust, and confidence in that place of freedom. Refuge in Buddhism makes the most sense when we experience this. It doesn't have to be a logical thing; it doesn't have to rely on reason to get you there. But as we practice, as we have a really deep experience of the possibility of peace or inner freedom, then refuge makes sense. Then refuge can be, "This is what I have faith in, this is what I trust." Then the work begins, because it's not that easy to stay that way. Unless greed, hate, and delusion have been destroyed totally, all these things will return. The arguments will begin, along with the struggles and questioning: "What do I need to do here? Maybe I'm supposed to be angry, or have to be angry. Other people want me to be angry. I'm supposed to be upset." All these kinds of movements, judgments, and ideas of how we're supposed to be are different from the absence of greed, hate, and delusion. There is authority from society and family telling us that we sometimes have to want, be greedy, be angry, or even be deluded. Do we succumb to that? Do we give in to that? We can feel we have refuge, we trust the place of freedom, but what about the circumstances? What about right here? That's where the practice is, right on the line between where the freedom is and where there are tendencies to lose that freedom. That is a fascinating and really important place of practice. If a person has clearly and decisively gone for refuge—meaning they have decisively decided to orient their lives from that place where there's the potential to be without greed, hate, and delusion—then it gives the context of practice a very powerful momentum, direction, and guide. And it's a wonderful life. My hope is that the ability to learn how to navigate life without greed, hate, and delusion, to navigate life without clinging, will also enable us to live with great motivation. It allows us to live courageously, so we don't complain, but we might protest. It allows us, when we should protest against social injustice for example, to do it because we have refuge. We are able to do it without fear. We're able to do it with courage. So, the study of refuge is not a passivity. It's only passive in the sense that there's no greed, hate, and delusion. It's not passive in terms of living from our compassion, care, kindness, generosity, and wisdom. I hope that this refuge can give you lots of peace, allow you to go through the world in a relaxed and peaceful way, and make the world a better place. Thank you. --- [^1]: Original transcript said "retaken delusion", corrected to "greed, hate, and delusion" based on context. [^2]: Original transcript said "pressure", corrected to "precious" based on context. [^3]: Original transcript said "rots watched", corrected to "watch" based on context.