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Five Hindrances Class 2 - Diana Clark, Tanya Wiser

Introduction and Review

Tanya Wiser: Well, here we are. Welcome to week two of the Five Hindrances. We're using some references from The Wizard of Oz to explore the hindrances. Last week, we just did an introduction to the Five Hindrances, which are sensual desire (or greed), aversion (or ill will), sloth and torpor, restlessness and worry, and doubt.

We described them as energies. If you think about the energy of sensual desire, it's an energy of leaning forward into wanting, trying to pull something to you. This is in contrast to the energy of aversion and ill will, which is a pushing away—a backward movement or a shoving away. With the energy of sloth and torpor, it's actually a lack of energy; there is not enough energy to be awake and present. There are two elements to sloth and torpor: one has to do with the body and the other has to do with the mind.

The next set of hindrances is restlessness and worry, which is too much energy. It's a body that is moving and agitated, unable to settle, or a mind that's worrying and spinning, unable to center and rest. Finally, there's doubt. Doubt doesn't know what direction the energy should go in, so there are a lot of starts and stops. No momentum is really established, and there's just a lack of clarity and direction. That represents the hindrances as energy.

We also talked about them as veils—things that obscure and make it difficult to see clearly. Another offering was to view them as things that hamper our ability to practice, to progress, and to be free.

Reflections on the Hindrances

Tanya Wiser: I'm wondering if anyone had any reflections from this week about noticing the hindrances. Were you able to take our invitation to be a little bit more playful with the presence of the hindrances, instead of feeling burdened by them? Gus, Kevin, and Jay, you are welcome to chime in.

Kevin: Something that came up last week that I keep needing to be reminded of is that there's the hindrance, you see it, and then my usual reaction is a lot of aversion to having it. It's like, "Oh, I see it! Oh my God, it shouldn't be there!" So I was kind of caught in it a lot today until a recent sit. I was sitting there, looking at the sheet, and I was like, "Oh yeah," and then I relaxed about the feeling of it.

Diana Clark: It's so fantastic that you recognize there's the hindrance itself and then there's our reaction to it. So often we have aversion to aversion, and then we have aversion to aversion to aversion, and on it goes. But it's really great to notice that we have the hindrances, and then the "extra" is wanting them to not be there.

Exploring Desire and Ill Will Through The Wizard of Oz

Tanya Wiser: I'll briefly say a few things as we move into talking more about desire and ill will tonight. We are using the reference of The Wizard of Oz to bring a playful energy to it, but also because it's an easy reference to exaggerations. It makes it so easy to see them.

First of all, I want to say there's the hindrance of greed and desire, but there's also something called Dhammacchanda^[1], which is a wholesome impulse or a wholesome desire. We don't want to imply that there's no room or space for desire in our practice; it's actually an important part of the path of practice. Without a desire to be free, we would not practice. Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz is kind of an example of Dhammacchanda. She really wants to get home.

However, some classic examples of sensual desire appear before Dorothy goes to Oz. She's in Kansas, quite disenchanted with her life, and she sings the song "Somewhere Over the Rainbow." It goes, "Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high, there's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby... Someday I'll wish upon a star and wake up where the clouds are far behind me, where troubles melt like lemon drops." It's clearly an example of her wanting things to be better and prettier. She has a sense desire for pleasure, which is a more subtle way it shows up.

Then, when we land in the Land of Oz, the Wicked Witch shows up. When she shows up, she says to Dorothy, "I want those shoes." Then she says, "I'll get you, my pretty!" in this very wicked way. She's wanting the shoes—there's the greed—and later she is threatening bodily harm to get them. The aversion and ill will follow right on the heels of the greed.

I also want to talk about the Emerald City itself, the home of the Wizard of Oz. It is seen through rose-colored glasses by the munchkins. They sing the song, "We're off to see the wizard, the wonderful Wizard of Oz. We hear he is a whiz of a whiz, if ever a whiz there was. If ever, oh ever, a whiz there was, the Wizard of Oz is one because, because, because, because, because of the wonderful things he does." There's no real content in this; it's just all this "because, because."

The city itself is built on sense desire. Everything is green, it has painted horses, and it's just fancy. The first place they take Dorothy and her friends when they arrive is this little fix-it-up factory where they get their hair done, the Scarecrow gets new straw, the Lion gets detailed, and the Tin Man has all his rust removed. That's an example where you see sense desire.

Just to reference the yellow brick road itself, it's often talked about as the gold standard, painted light gold. I think it also represents the momentum of greed. There's this momentum of building and moving toward what you want.

In terms of aversion, we've got the Wicked Witch: "I'll get you, my pretty." She kidnaps Dorothy, tells her she's going to kill her, sets the timer, and sends the monkeys off to drown Toto in the river. It's a classic extreme. On a slightly more subtle, disguised level, I'll bring up the Wizard himself. It's aversion or hatred disguised as a promise to help. He sends Dorothy and her friends to the Wicked Witch to get her broom. He says, "You go do this, bring it back, and I'll give you all what you want." It's a false promise, sending them into a life-threatening situation he doesn't think they're going to survive. To me, this is a real example of ill will.

With that, let me turn it over to Diana for the Dharma perspective.

The Dharma Perspective on Sensory Desire

Diana Clark: That was fun, Tanya. I don't think I will ever consider this movie the same again! [Laughter] I think it's good, right? Because with the hindrances, I know for me, I felt like it was a failing. When I got caught in them, I thought something was wrong with me in my practice. So this is a lot of fun to bring some levity to it.

Just to reiterate, the desire being pointed to is not all desire, of course. We need desire; when we're hungry, we desire to eat. That's such a natural part of being human. The desire being pointed to here is sensory desire. It's the desire to have sense pleasures—things that taste good, smell good, feel good. It's a hindrance when it's getting in the way. We don't want to say that having a pleasurable experience is inherently bad. It becomes a hindrance when we think that pursuing pleasures will be a source of lasting happiness. Then we find ourselves on this hedonic treadmill, trying to find the next one, and the next one, and the next one, and we never get to more freedom. It's kind of the opposite of freedom—just pursuing the next sense pleasure.

So much of this whole practice is to help make this distinction: what kind of sensory desire is skillful, helpful, and healthy, and what isn't? Often, we can't see this distinction when we're in the midst of it. But when the mind starts to settle down a little bit with some meditation, some pointing that Tanya and I are doing, or pointing that you've heard in Dharma talks, it can help support making that distinction.

In order to help with this, part of what we need to do is really get to know this sensory desire for pleasures so that it can stop being a hindrance. Experiencing sensory desire is just a part of the human experience. Instead of thinking, "This is a problem, I have to do something about it," it can be, "Here's an opportunity for me to learn something. Here's an opportunity for me to see my relationship to these desires." Am I holding on and hoping that this is going to make me happy? Are we getting obsessed with the objects?

"Look at that, it's so beautiful. As soon as I have that, it's going to be great. Wow, look at that toaster! As soon as I get the new toaster, it's going to make breakfast so much better. And then once I have a good breakfast, my day is going to be better, and then I can do all this kind of stuff. I just gotta get the right toaster, not too big, not too small." We start getting obsessed with the toaster, not even recognizing how much we're leaning forward, filled with greed. We become completely detached from our own experience and everything going on around us while clicking around on Amazon looking for the perfect toaster.

Can we experience desire and use it as an opportunity to learn? Notice how we often get obsessed with the object and disconnected from ourselves. Notice how we might be projecting onto the object, thinking everything's going to be all right as soon as we get it. We can say the same with aversion: "Everything's going to be okay as soon as I get rid of this broken toaster that's taking up all this space on my counter. I don't have room for the blender for my morning smoothies, and I have to make all that noise to move it around and wake up my partner."

Here are some ways to determine what is skillful desire and what isn't. Does it get in the way? Does it hinder? Does it get in the way of what's important to you? Does it get in the way of your meditation practice? Does it get in the way of feeling centered in your body? Does it get in the way of what your priorities are in your life? Sometimes we are so busy pursuing the next dopamine hit that we fill our days with it, and the things that are really important to us get neglected. Is there something else that we could be doing with our time and our energy?

Another thing we can ask ourselves is, when we finally attain or achieve what we're desiring—when we finally get that new toaster—does it bring the ease that we're expecting? Does it bring happiness? Does it bring a sense of freedom? Or do we immediately think, "Oh no, I got the new toaster, and it doesn't match the dishwasher, so now I gotta get a new dishwasher." There's a way in which we get what we're after, but there's no sense of ease or satisfaction. It's just like a hedonic treadmill.

So part of working with sensory desire is just recognizing it's happening, and then noticing if it's helpful or unhelpful. Another thing we can do is to look at what the experience of desiring actually is. How does it feel in the body? Tanya talked about leaning forward, and I noticed that when I was talking about the toaster, my body was automatically going forward! It can be really helpful to notice the bodily experience. If we pay attention, we'll see that there's a certain amount of contraction or tightness. There isn't a sense of ease, openness, and relaxation. There's a bit more doggedness, like, "Okay, I gotta get this." There's a certain tightness associated with it that we often don't notice because we're paying attention to the object.

What else can we do? We can direct the mind elsewhere, away from that object of desire. One way we can practice in daily life is to apply a little bit of distraction in terms of focusing on what we are doing right now. Can I be embodied and present with what I'm doing? Sometimes what we're doing is different than the desire. Instead, can we just apply ourselves a little bit more diligently to what we're doing? Let's make that distinction. If we're standing in the kitchen, just be standing for a moment. If we're putting butter on the toast after it came out of the bad toaster, we can just be with that. Essentially, it's distracting yourself away from the desire to just be with what you're doing.

Something else we can do as a support for practicing with desire—something that's not so easy to do and really easy to miss—is to notice the sense of ease and spaciousness that is there when the desire is gone. Often we won't notice when the desire just goes away, but an hour later we might realize, "Oh yeah, I don't have that desire anymore." Then just kind of feel in: "Oh yeah, there isn't that little sense of urgency or tightness that was associated with it before." The more often we can notice this subtle sense of ease and freedom after the desire has been satisfied, the better. Once the body and the mind notice that not having the desire is actually a pleasant state that supports being open to what's happening, there will be more inclination to connect with that. But it takes a commitment or a reminder to notice the feeling.

Aversion and Ill Will

Diana Clark: Now I'll talk a little bit about the flip side: aversion and ill will. First, I'll make a slight distinction between the two. Aversion is just this pushing away, like Tanya said: "I don't want this." Ill will, for me, is like, "I don't want this," but there's a little flavor of hostility in there. A flavor of, "Dang it, go away, get out of here," with a bit of a tone to it.

Sometimes anger, resentment, holding a grudge, or resistance are associated with aversion and ill will. As we talked about earlier, fear is a part of ill will, because sometimes the ill will arises because we are afraid that something is going to be uncomfortable or harmful. We have a certain "go away" reaction because we are afraid of it and don't want it to be around. Just like in The Wizard of Oz, they were afraid of the Wicked Witch coming to the Land of Oz, so it's like, "Go away, Dorothy."

Just as I was saying with desire, turning away or aversion is not bad. Of course, it's healthy to have boundaries. To say, "This is acceptable, this isn't. I'm willing to have this in my experience, and this I'm not." Walking away from somebody who's yelling at you is appropriate; that's not a hindrance. It's the same thing: having the sensitivity to ask, "Is this skillful or unskillful? Is this helpful or unhelpful?"

Recognize that the role of understanding it requires that we be present when it's there. How does it feel in the body? What is the mind doing? When we have this sense of aversion, we will feel a certain sense of contraction. In the same way with desire, there can be a strong sense of "me" here, and "that thing" over there. There's a really strong sense of "me against the world" in some kind of way. That thing over there—I either want it or I don't want it. If you tune in, you can notice that when we're not filled with desire or ill will, the sense of "me" being isolated, separate, and distinct from everything else isn't so strong. When that isn't so strong, there's also more ease, freedom, and peace.

Especially if this is a habit of ours, we can notice what purpose ill will has in our life. What's underneath fueling it? Some examples might be that we have hidden beliefs. For example, "I can keep myself safe if I push everything away that's going to make me uncomfortable." Or maybe, "Having ill will gives me a sense of vitality." When we're really angry or trying to get rid of something, an energy goes through us, and we feel alive. There's a little bit of drama associated with it. We might feel like, "If I don't have that, then what would my life feel like?" Or maybe we have a sense of identity associated with a group: "I'm a person that belongs to this group, and this group likes this and doesn't like that. So I really don't like that because I want to be part of this group." Have some curiosity about what's underneath fueling it, and recognize that there are often some hidden beliefs.

The last thing I'll say about ill will or aversion is that we can actively apply an antidote, and the obvious one is loving-kindness. If you have a loving-kindness practice, you can bring it in. I am not talking about having loving-kindness for the exact same thing that we have ill will for—that's a really tall order. What I'm talking about is just changing the ecosystem inside the mind to soften and disrupt the momentum. Bring to mind the easiest thing to have loving-kindness for: kittens, puppies, babies, grandkids, pets. Notice how when you bring those to mind, the temperature of the ill will or aversion can come down.

Guided Meditation

Tanya Wiser: Are you guys ready to do a practice? Great. I'll guide you through the practice of RAFT. It's an acronym:

• R is for Recognition.
• A is for Allowing.
• F is for Finding it and Feeling it.
• T has two parts. The first is Teasing apart what's going on from our reaction to it. The last T is finding what we can Trust in our practice.

Taking just a minute to settle in. I'm going to drop in a question for you to just see what answer arrives. The first thing I want you to do is to notice if your answer is something that's just too big to work with right now, and if it is, just ask yourself the question again.

The question is: What do I think needs to be different in my life right now?

Allow yourself to connect or choose an answer that feels like something you can work with in this practice, in this room, without getting overwhelmed. It could be very small. Do you all have a sense of something that you think needs to be different?

Now, the first thing to do is to check in. We are recognizing we want something to be different. Do we want it to be better? Is there some greed present? Do we want it to go away? Is there some aversion present? Is there a leaning in or a pushing away? Just recognize the hindrance or hindrances.

Once we've recognized it, if it's permissible to you, we want to allow ourselves to be in the company of the hindrance. See if we can't turn toward the hindrance itself. It doesn't mean endorsing it, and it doesn't mean we're going to give in to it. It does mean we're going to stop fighting with it for a moment and allow ourselves to turn face to face.

As you find yourself turning toward it, see if you can shift your awareness into your body. See if you can find and feel where the energy of the hindrance is manifesting in your body. What does it feel like? What part, or parts, of your body can you notice it in? You might notice it in your throat, your chest, your hands, your shoulders, your neck. You might notice it in your eyebrows and the little scrunch between your eyes. Get quiet enough to be able to receive the sensations in the body connected to the hindrance.

See if you can keep bringing your awareness back to the sensations instead of the story and ideas. If you have a thought, try and follow it like a vibration into the body. Notice if it's changing. It will do one of three things: it can grow, it can diminish, or stay the same. What's happening for you in this moment? Breathing and sensing. Being as simple as we can with the experience.

At some point, when you're ready, you can move to the next part of the practice. Teasing apart. The simplest part of this is to see if you can first acknowledge the thing that we think needs to be different, and then acknowledge our reaction to it—the wanting or not wanting.

For me, I find it very helpful to imagine a very spacious room with a round table and as many chairs as I need. With each thing that I see as part of this, I can offer it a seat. For example, the thing that I think needs to be different can have a chair at the table, and my response to it can have another chair. Inviting them to sit down. See them separately.

As you do, you may realize there are some other things present here. Perhaps there's an idea of you, an opinion, or a belief that has to do with why you think you need this thing to be different. Maybe there's an imagined future that feels threatened, and it too needs a seat at the table. There could also be memories from the past—the way it used to be—or a different experience altogether that is somehow connected to this one. Allow everything to have as much space as it needs. Some of these things you may not want to go near, and that's fine. Some of these things you might feel comfortable sitting down next to.

Another question you can ask is: what is the purpose of the hindrance here? What is it trying to do? You could also ask: what's feeding or fueling the hindrance? What's keeping it going? There's no need to create answers. If an answer arises, allow it to have a seat. If not, no problem. We're just trying to untangle, not create more tangles. Simply allow yourself to acknowledge the different pieces that come to you that are part of the situation.

At some point, if you feel settled, like you're seeing clearly, you can move on to the next part of the practice. This is about trust. What can we trust about our practice, about what we've experienced or seen? What does it feel like to rest and trust? Can we remind ourselves that the hindrance is not who we are? If there's any sense of ease, try to orient toward that ease. Just breathing gently with it.

Sometimes, if I'm having a hard time resting in the sense of ease or trust, I might remind myself that this experience—the hindrance or whatever's going on—will change. The way I'm feeling now will change, probably fairly quickly in some way or another. Sometimes it's really helpful to remind myself that I'm not my experience. I'm not limited by what's happening; it doesn't define me. Its nature is something that comes and goes in all of our minds and hearts.

And if it's really hard, I might put my hand on my heart, feel the warmth of my hand there, and breathe into my heart. I might say something like, "May I be at ease. May I have well-being. May I be safe from harm." Take a few more minutes to practice in a way that feels supportive for you.

Discussion and Q&A

Diana Clark: Thank you, Tanya. Tanya walked us through RAFT: Recognize, Allow, Feel in the body, Tease apart with sitting around the table, and Trust, maybe with some softening and a little bit of loving-kindness at the end. We'd love to hear from you guys. How was that meditation? Or maybe you have some questions about the hindrances in general, or maybe even The Wizard of Oz. [Laughter]

Student: I thought it was super helpful when you did the table. I was like, "I don't know how many chairs I can fill," and then they kept coming, and I kept adding chairs. It was just kind of nice. I sat at the table for a really long time and just recognized.

Tanya Wiser: I didn't want to throw on too much, but it can also be helpful to allow the chairs to have relative size. You know, "That thing is huge, that thing's kind of small." And then there's the possibility for a whole new set of insights. It can be as big as it needs to be, and you can allow the space to expand as well. If you feel you need more space, it's right there.

Kevin: I really appreciated the meditation. Between the two of you, I was working through some of the stuff you were talking about as you were talking, and then partway through the sit, it kind of just dissolved on its own. I just stopped paying attention to what you were saying and was just appreciating it. It was really wonderful.

Tanya Wiser: It was wise of you, Kevin, to let it just sit. One thing I didn't mention, but I like to say, is we don't always have to go all the way through the acronym. Sometimes it's the simple act of recognition, and that's all that's needed. There's an almost instant recognizing and allowing, and it just dissolves. You only go as far as you need to go in the practice. Sometimes there's really nothing to tease apart, so you can just let yourself rest.

Diana Clark: Or maybe it even starts with feeling in the body. Maybe just, "Oh, there's some tightness here," and then there's a recognition and allowing. RAFT is a nice acronym—this idea of a raft that's going to take us over to safety—but we don't have to do it in that exact order.

Student: What if it's something that you wanted to fix a bunch of times in your life, you have fixed it before, and you're looking at it again? How does that change the model, if at all? Is there an additional insight that comes from thinking about how some of these things do recur, and is there wisdom when you look at it a second, third, or fourth time?

Tanya Wiser: I would say this is not an intellectual practice. Experience it, find out. The answer could be there's more insight, or there's not more, but you wouldn't know that until you did the practice.

Diana Clark: If something is recurring and you've done it before, I would say pay attention to what's fueling it. Why is it recurring? But I'm not necessarily saying to dig and figure it out. It's more like dropping in a question: "I wonder why this is occurring?" It's a spirit of curiosity as opposed to, "I gotta figure this out." Sometimes when we do that, something new will bubble up, and then we can work with whatever the new thing is. We might learn something about ourselves and some of the beliefs that are fueling these types of things. When we recognize these underlying beliefs and allow them to lose some of their authority, this is where real transformation happens.

Tanya Wiser: You could also bring this to the table: "I've done this so many times before. Okay, you get to sit in that chair."

Exploring Wholesome Alternatives

(Note: The group breaks out into smaller circles to discuss the role of sensory pleasure or ill will in their lives, and to explore meaningful feelings that are not connected to these hindrances. The following is the group sharing after the exercise.)

Student: Before I started this practice, I had no idea how much this kind of desire was a part of my life. I'm always trying to get the next thing, sometimes it's books. It's amazing to see how much a habit it is. "Okay, I want to start a new habit. Well then I must need to buy something in order that I can start it. I need a gratitude journal." It's quite something. With practice, it definitely has lessened.

Student: Anger and fear are really big for me in my life right now, and often it can feel like a really big chair. So what I do is I sit on a bench at a park, watching the dogs, the kids, the trees, and the birds. You just kind of get lost in the nature of life happening, and it helps me a lot.

Tanya Wiser: Spending time in nature is really supportive for whatever is going on. I wouldn't worry whether it's distracting you from dealing with the actual hindrances. By picking up nature, you abandon the hindrance. It's a beautiful thing; it's wise effort. You're redirecting your attention.

Student: Talking about the challenges, and then when you posed the question about what doesn't involve the hindrances, it was really nice to compare and contrast clinging and non-clinging to keep things in perspective. I also found it really interesting to listen to everyone else and what supports them.

Student: I decided a couple of months ago that every week I'm going to go do something with the arts, whether I go see a symphony or a museum. In the end, it feeds my soul. This is something I've known all my life but haven't done a lot of. It is something that when I do it, I feel awe, I feel joy, I feel gratitude, and it's totally separate from craving and aversion.

Student: I realized one of my weak areas of practice was generosity. I figured out what I could do within my budget. In my area, there are a lot of homeless people right now. I figured out almost everybody would take a cold soda. So every day I'll put two cold sodas in my backpack, and before I come home, they have to be gone. Part of my mind is scanning for who I can give it to. Sometimes it's a homeless guy, sometimes a security guard at the door. It opens the door to a conversation. For the homeless guys, it's not even just the soda; it's like, "You see me." They feel so invisible. Even if it's not a hundred bucks, it's like, "Wow, somebody sees me." It's been an experiment for a few months now, and I'm loving it.

Tanya Wiser: What a great idea! It reminds me of a practice I did for a while, which was to literally stop early when I was approaching a crosswalk or a four-way stop. If there were pedestrians, there was a generosity of space—offering safeness to people. It would create a connection, people would really like it, and I felt joy because it just felt like a sweet thing to be doing.

Diana Clark: I think it's nice to be creative about how we are generous with others. There's what we give with objects and money, but there's also what we give with our attention.

Summary and Homework

Tanya Wiser: I'll just do a very brief summary of the key points. The reminder is to invite more of a sense of curiosity, lightness, and playfulness when you are working with, experiencing, or thinking about the hindrances. Just think about The Wizard of Oz.

Remember, we're not saying that all desire or aversion is bad. Ask yourself: is it hindering? Is it wholesome? Is it skillful? If it's not hindering or causing harm, great. Just watch out for your clinging and identifying with it.

Some of the skillful things you can do: at the most subtle level, you can try and ignore the ill will and just redirect your energy. Try not to feed it. Notice what you're doing that feeds it, and stop feeding it if possible. For example, we might feed aversion if we're being critical of a boss, and our co-workers appreciate it. Wanting the approval of our co-workers can be feeding aversion in that situation, so we need to pay attention to what's feeding it.

It's helpful sometimes to pull away or remove things that trigger aversion and desire. Take a break from the normal triggers. Notice when desire and aversion are present, and also when they are absent. When they are absent, appreciate what that absence feels like. Usually, there's a sense of being more at ease, more settled. Notice that, savor it, appreciate it, and try and sustain it. You might notice the mind is relentless and will offer the next thing you need to go get, do, or get rid of. If you're staying close to the ease, you can feel the dis-ease that starts to arise with that, and you might say, "Not now. Not now."

Diana Clark: For homework, I think it could be really helpful before your meditation period to tap into those things you talked about that are supportive and not connected to desire and ill will. Whether it's going to the arts, being generous, or spending time in nature, bring those to mind before your meditation period and just see how meditation unfolds. See how that supports some openness or ease with meditation. Play around with that.