Moon Pointing

Dharmette: Attitudes (3 of 5) From Aversion to Curiousity

Date:
2023-11-22
Speakers:
Gil Fronsdal [Talks] [@AudioDharma]
Location:
Insight Meditation Center [Talks] [@YouTube]
Generation:
2026-05-03 (gemini-3-pro-preview) [Raw Markdown] [YouTube Video]
Keywords:
Dharmette: Attitudes (3 of 5) From Aversion to Curiousity
[Jump To Below] [AudioDharma]

This is an AI-generated transcript from auto-generated subtitles for the video above. It likely contains inaccuracies, especially with speaker attribution if there are multiple speakers.

Guided Meditation

Warm greetings from the Insight Meditation Center here in Redwood City, California. I prefer to introduce myself that way, just saying that I'm here on this earth with all of you, all of us together—it's widespread. So thank you for being here.

This week I'm discussing attitudes, and these are the background moods, background filters through which we see, how we speak, how we act in the world that are often not brought into consciousness—kind of an underlying attitude that pervades everything.

One of those can be the attitude that we know—that our thinking, the way we understand things, is accurate. And so if we know something which is not a hard fact but an opinion, which is a judgment or an evaluation, and we treat it as fact, then we can get into trouble. Sometimes these are opinions we have about ourselves, that sometimes there's delusions of grandeur, sometimes there's a delusion of the opposite of that. Sometimes it has to do with delusions about the world around us, that we know something, we think we know somebody, we know their motivations, their intentions. We know, you know, just a lot of knowing.

And in meditation as well, there can be this attitude that I know what's supposed to happen, I know what is happening. One of the useful attitudes is the attitude of not knowing. Not so that you're ignorant, not so that you somehow allow something to persist that is harmful for you, but rather so that we don't harm ourselves with the so-called knowledge we have, the opinions we have, the understandings we have, so that we have room to see more clearly, more widely. So we don't see through the filters of our preconceived ideas. We don't see through the filter of our opinions. We don't see through the filter of the ways that we're hurt, or angry, or we want something, and through those filters think that we actually know what we're seeing.

And to not know is to have the mind be open, the heart be open. It is to be fresh, it's to be curious and interested: what is here? Let's take another look. In fact, I love—some of you know I've said this often enough—that I'm very fond of the word "respect" as a kind of synonym for mindfulness practice. Because the "spect" of respect is like spectacles—to see, comes from the Latin word to see. And so to respect is to see again, take a second look. Mindfulness is always to take a second look and a third look. What is it with a mind that doesn't know, doesn't impose or overlay our knowing on top of a situation?

So, to assume a meditation posture that's right for you. Spend some time maybe twisting around or wiggling around, moving the shoulders, rocking back and forth, forward and backwards, to find a posture where you feel the most aligned, your body aligned with itself.

And to lower your gaze and let your gaze be relaxed, not looking at anything in particular. Almost as if you're not looking, or looking through the peripheral vision, looking just without seeing anything, knowing without knowing what you see. And then gently closing your eyes.

And feeling the glow, the hum, the sensations of your body in some global way. Not knowing, not imposing your preconceived ideas, but as if it's a brand new world to enter the world of your body, allowing the body to show itself to you. Let the different sensations be simple, without entangling them with knowing attitudes, beliefs, predictions, even memories. As if you're knowing these sensations for the first time.

And in a way that is enjoyable for you, take a little deeper breaths, and then a longer exhale, relaxing your body. Simple, very simple enjoyment or pleasure in breathing a little bit more consciously, fully. Relaxing, and letting the breathing return to normal. And once again seeing if there's a little bit of pleasure or enjoyment to be found somewhere in the cycle of breathing in and breathing out. And as you exhale, to relax different parts of your body.

Relaxing the thinking mind, the thinking muscle. When we're too involved in understanding or believing, having opinions, it can be felt as a tension in the mind, a pressure in the forehead or on the eyes, the jaws, shoulders, even down. That extra layer of believing and knowing and reacting, let it all relax.

And for this meditation, allow yourself not to know. Being present, attentive without interpretation, story, meaning, predictions. Experiencing closely what is here, not knowing what it is.

If there's anything uncomfortable or difficult as you meditate, notice whether you have an opinion about that, or you believe something about it. That's an extra layer. An alternative point of view that allows for something unknown to be there is that whatever is challenging, whatever is going on which is not what you know it should be, that something new is being born. Something new is occurring, provided you get out of the way.

Let your thinking relax and quiet, and with a not-knowing mind, feel and sense more deeply what's happening here in the body, with emotions. Allowing things to be without imposing knowing.

And then as we come to the end of this sitting, to suspend our preconceived ideas about this moment, what's happening, and instead be curious as if you don't know. Not knowing can be an expression of respect where we put aside preconceived ideas so that we can be open to discover anew what is here right now.

And to gaze out upon the world, out upon all the people we know and will be seeing these next few days, and to offer them respect. Seeing them fresh, thinking of them anew, so you can better know how they are. As if every day someone is different, every hour. And in the changing ways in which people unfold and evolve, they do have the capacity to be happy. They do have the capacity to feel at home in themselves and be peaceful.

And may we wish that for everyone. May the people in our lives, and may all people be happy. May they be healthy. May they be safe. May they be peaceful. May they be free. May they too rest in the joy of not always knowing. And may we support others in their capacity to grow and to change and to become better people by not imposing our preconceived ideas. May all beings be happy.

So thank you very much.

Dharmette: Attitudes (3 of 5) From Aversion to Curiousity

Hello everyone, and welcome to our third talk on attitudes, specifically moving from unskillful attitudes to skillful ones. The unskillful one that is very common in this world is ill will or aversion. It takes many forms; right now I'm thinking about resentment as a form of it. Living with resentment, with a kind of hurt, anger, and hostility. Being critical or complaining is a form of aversion or hostility. Complaining about people or things too much all too easily carries with it some kind of ill will.

This isn't to deny that there are things that are hurtful that happen in the world, or things we need to take into account that are not helpful or skillful in what people are doing. But it's to see aversion or ill will as an attitude—a pervasive way in which we see the world. We go into a new space, a new room with people we maybe don't know, or we've known them before, but we're stepping into a new situation. We carry with us a mood or an attitude of resentment, aversion, ill will, or criticalness. We have the idea something is wrong even as we step into the room, and we have to figure out what that is, what to fix or what to avoid, and who the "bad" people are, the "wrong" people, and who are not. There's a kind of built-in mood of aversion that can be there.

Most people don't think they have that. But there was a time in my life, many years ago, almost fifty years ago, where my friends would say, "Gil, you seem to always be angry." I didn't think I was angry at all. But somehow there was an underlying mood of—probably something like resentment—that things were difficult or challenging, and I was upset about it. It took me a while to see that that was the case. Some of it I was able to see only by starting to meditate regularly. Slowly, I started to see that underneath my ordinary way of being in the world, thinking about the world, there was a kind of anger or aversion operating there. Slowly that began to relax, and hopefully now there's very little of it left.

Part of the function of meditation practice is, in fact, to discover these kinds of things. If we're too enamored with becoming calm or having pleasure in meditation, we might not notice. If we're too caught up in trying to avoid tension and stress when we meditate, we might not stop to take a good, respectful look at the tension, the stress, and the strains we have in order to identify what is really going on for us, so we can see the underlying mood or attitude that might be operating.

Once we see something, then there's opportunity. It's almost like space has been created so that now something can begin to unfold, relax, evolve, or change in a healthy way. Without knowing, things can often be locked in, but knowing begins the process of changing. So knowing is quite important, and not knowing is important.

To recognize something, and then not know what's supposed to happen—not know a judgment and not know an opinion that we overlay on top of it—is to make room for something that we can't predict, to allow it to happen. Many times in my life, I've been surprised that things evolved differently than the way I thought they were supposed to. Sometimes I thought they were going in the wrong direction, sometimes I thought they were going in a good direction, and then they would go the opposite of what I thought.

But what I've discovered is that if I show up to be present for the situation, it tends to move things in a good direction. It certainly tends to move me in a good direction, this simple presence. And that simple presence can be characterized by not knowing—the respect of being present without bringing our preconceived ideas, our memories, our expectations of what it is we're going to see or be with.

So I would like to offer an alternative to aversion, to ill will. If we have this simmering background of ill will, aversion, complaining, or criticalness going on, or we have resentment—even anger—towards someone that we know, and it's very clear it's not just a background attitude, it's just what comes up when we see that person. An alternative is to be curious. When you feel aversion, when you feel hostility or criticalness, shift over to a curious state, a curious attitude: "What's happening here? What's going on here?"

This is a time to understand better. This is a time to have a kind of beginner's mind: "I don't really know, but let me study. Let me pay attention. What's happening to this person? What's happening to this situation?" So that we're stepping forward interested, as opposed to stepping forward critical. Even if we're angry with someone—and maybe there's good reason for it—if it's safe enough for you to do it, step forward and find out: "What's happening with you? What's going on?" or "How are you?" Just show your interest and curiosity.

This is a way of coming forward with some modicum of a not-knowing mind, genuinely curious about what's going on here. But also, when we step forward with curiosity, with interest, we're actually creating space for the other person to change. If we step forward with our criticalness, with our preconceived ideas, people feel that and they feel boxed in. They feel like they have to defend themselves, react, take a stand, or something. But if we come forward with the equivalent in our attitude of open arms—"Tell me more, I'd like to know more. How are you? What's going on?"—it can disarm people. That is a powerful metaphor that we use sometimes, that we can catch people off guard.

Most people relax if we show genuine interest in them, and maybe we begin discovering something deeper about the situation and the person than we would if we stayed in our critical stance or stayed in our anger only. I'm not saying it's easy to put aside anger; it might still be there. But see if you can not let it be the attitude by which you operate. Instead, have an attitude of curiosity. Step forward: "What's happening here? What's going on here?"

That could be a gift, in a sense. Many people don't get enough experience of people who are interested in really knowing what's happening with them, what's going on. Some people don't want you to probe, but to come with a beginner's mind, a not-knowing mind—"Oh hi, what's happening with you? How are you today? How have you been?"—and making space. And then perhaps some of the reasons why we're critical of someone, maybe that person begins to relax. Some of those reasons won't be present in the moment. Maybe the past issues are still there, but in the moment, maybe they aren't operating in the way that's difficult for you.[1]

Certainly, I think it's much better for us as practitioners to come forward with curiosity and interest than it is to come forward with aversion, resentment, and anger. Maybe the person who becomes disarmed is ourselves. Maybe in some kind of way it's healthier for us, it's safer for us, it has greater benefits for us to be that way than it is for others. Maybe that's what you can also discover: how you are, what happens to you when you come forward curious about others.

So if you have occasion to be around other people these next few days, especially for Thanksgiving, where there might be a number of people—family members who are challenging, perhaps friends who are challenging—see what it's like to come forward with interest and curiosity.

Thank you very much. I'll be here tomorrow morning, which in the United States is Thanksgiving morning, and then I'll go home and help with the preparations there. So thank you very much for being here. If there are some people here on the Peninsula who would like to come to IMC tomorrow, Gloria is hosting a potluck Thanksgiving meal here, I think maybe around noon. It's on the IMC website under 'What's New'. So if you're local, you're welcome to come. Thank you.



  1. Original transcript said "maybe that they begin operating in the way that's difficult for you," corrected to "maybe they aren't operating in the way that's difficult for you" based on context. ↩︎